Hi, thanks for this essay. So admirable of Dr Cao to work in Africa. HIs example seems to show us that we don't need to fear becoming "redundant", especially when there is so much poverty in the world.
I personally don't see why we should fear "redundancy" due to technology and automation. If a country's economy does in fact reach a state where all productive work can be done by machines and AI, then a sensible government policy is to tax income from capital, and pay everyone a basic universal income; this way, every one can decide for themselves how they live worthwhile lives. Some may choose to excel in the arts (e.g., music, literary work, artistic work), others could excel in sports, still others could devote their lives to research (in physics, biology, etc), others could excel in acting, journalism, etc. There is so many ways we can live worthwhile lives. So we should welcome "redundancy"!
The basic issue is that we need a government to tax income from capital, and distribute the income in a way that continues to encourage innovation. There's no need for equal distribution of income from capital; the universal basic income just needs to cover people's basic cost of living, so we are not afraid to "take risks" when exploring ways to live worthwhile lives.
So many of us (myself included) dare not pursue careers that we truly have an interest in, ending up as accountants, engineers, etc, when we would have preferred to be garderners, zoologists, mathematicians, linguists, etc.
The problem with the Western political system is that their governments are unable to even to address the poverty within their own societies, despite how wealthy the society is as a whole. Western "liberal values" focus on "procedural freedoms" (e.g., free speech, free media, etc), but neglect "opportunity freedoms" (e.g., freedom from hunger, freedom from illiteracy, etc). Their "free market" ideology prevents their governments from addressing market failures. So the wealthy people in the West end up feeling bored, spending their excess wealth on trivialities, not on worthwhile projects.
" Not just food, but other industrial products closely related to people's lives, including clothing, daily necessities, small home appliances, and even big items like cars - if you don't care about their brands and "face value" and only focus on their functionality and practicality, you'll find that their prices are not expensive at all."
Expensive is a word that refers to products. It is prices that are high or low... So, when prices are high, products are expensive.
"In today's era of material production excess, more and more people trained as material producers are gradually finding that they're no longer truly needed by society. "
In the West, some critics of the Western system call this line of reasoning a gross distortion, a result of gaslighting, a pure psychological manipulation by the sick establishment.
To say that human beings are redundant because of the tools that they created to serve them - an absurdity.
Even if we were to imagine that human beings are mere robots made of metal, they would be more valued than in this scheme.
In this context, what is the reason that China is on the course of massively expanding the production robots that are humanoid?
And ironically, some of the said critics of the West look up to China as providing an alternative that is healthy.
...
Would you please provide a link to Dr. Cao Fengze on Zhihu?
You said you secured an opportunity to meet Dr Fengze.
Is it for an interview?
If so, is the interview yet to happen?
I wonder if Dr. Cao Fengze and/or his wife have read Albert Schweitzer. And how are they acquainted with his work and the experiences of his team in Africa?
Thanks for asking these questions! Personally, I think such criticism has its base in post-modern societies like the US or part of China. Yet, such criticism also contains a privilege. I think Chinese would say a person on a higher level of Maslow's hierarchy shouldn't judge others' choices. For people who haven't experienced abundance, it's natural that they would value material things over human beings. That's why many of those criticisms go too far away to people actually experiencing shortages. I met Dr.Cao at an event; I didn't interview him; it was just random talk about his experiences. I think he had yet to read Schweitzer; he studied Civil Engineering, not Philosophy. his page: https://www.zhihu.com/people/cao-feng-ze-37/answers
.... such criticism also contains a privilege. I think Chinese would say a person on a higher level of Maslow's hierarchy shouldn't judge others' choices. For people who haven't experienced abundance, it's natural that they would value material things over human beings. That's why many of those criticisms go too far away to people actually experiencing shortages. ...
There appears to be some confusion, and maybe it is only in my head. The criticism in my comment was about developed societies. And it is a criticism that says: marginalising people is inexcusable. Increased automation cannot be a good reason for marginalising people. It's a criticism from the view that human interests should remain in the center.
It is also something else than indifference toward productivity, or an argument against increases in productivity.
My bad, it was too late in Beijing. I don't worry about increasing automation marginalizing people for now. I think it's a good starting point; after people find that producing materials is no longer a good option, more of them will be focusing on amusing themselves and others. And they are not marginalized as long as they find meaning in the new job created. Automation takes people away from hand-made products, but what about their ability to organize society? or producing cultural artifact.
If the purpose of technology is to help people, automation should automate those activities that people want to avoid doing, and allow people spend more time and become better in those activities they like doing. In a society that cares of the interests of the people, there is a need to envision how this is to be done.
My question about Dr. Cao's acquaintance with Schweitzer is because of the problems Cao faces with the Tanzanian mentality. He would be helped by learning about the experiences of previous generations of people like him - foreign professionals who want to contribute to a better world - in Tanzania. They all faced the same basic problems as Dr. Cao. One of them was Luise Aall, a doctor, who later moved from Tanzania to become a member of Schweitzer's hospital in Gabon, and still later wrote about her experiences in the books Call Mama Doctor and Working With Doctor Schweitzer. Schweitzer spent fifty years among Africans, so his books on his own experiences with them may also contain something useful for Dr. Cao. Schweitzer's hospital is still highly functioning in a corner of an African jungle, so they may be doing something right in their dealing with the African mentalities.
These books are freely available, if not in China, then in 'brotherly' Russia
Hi, thanks for this essay. So admirable of Dr Cao to work in Africa. HIs example seems to show us that we don't need to fear becoming "redundant", especially when there is so much poverty in the world.
I personally don't see why we should fear "redundancy" due to technology and automation. If a country's economy does in fact reach a state where all productive work can be done by machines and AI, then a sensible government policy is to tax income from capital, and pay everyone a basic universal income; this way, every one can decide for themselves how they live worthwhile lives. Some may choose to excel in the arts (e.g., music, literary work, artistic work), others could excel in sports, still others could devote their lives to research (in physics, biology, etc), others could excel in acting, journalism, etc. There is so many ways we can live worthwhile lives. So we should welcome "redundancy"!
The basic issue is that we need a government to tax income from capital, and distribute the income in a way that continues to encourage innovation. There's no need for equal distribution of income from capital; the universal basic income just needs to cover people's basic cost of living, so we are not afraid to "take risks" when exploring ways to live worthwhile lives.
So many of us (myself included) dare not pursue careers that we truly have an interest in, ending up as accountants, engineers, etc, when we would have preferred to be garderners, zoologists, mathematicians, linguists, etc.
The problem with the Western political system is that their governments are unable to even to address the poverty within their own societies, despite how wealthy the society is as a whole. Western "liberal values" focus on "procedural freedoms" (e.g., free speech, free media, etc), but neglect "opportunity freedoms" (e.g., freedom from hunger, freedom from illiteracy, etc). Their "free market" ideology prevents their governments from addressing market failures. So the wealthy people in the West end up feeling bored, spending their excess wealth on trivialities, not on worthwhile projects.
From the translation :
" Not just food, but other industrial products closely related to people's lives, including clothing, daily necessities, small home appliances, and even big items like cars - if you don't care about their brands and "face value" and only focus on their functionality and practicality, you'll find that their prices are not expensive at all."
Expensive is a word that refers to products. It is prices that are high or low... So, when prices are high, products are expensive.
"In today's era of material production excess, more and more people trained as material producers are gradually finding that they're no longer truly needed by society. "
In the West, some critics of the Western system call this line of reasoning a gross distortion, a result of gaslighting, a pure psychological manipulation by the sick establishment.
To say that human beings are redundant because of the tools that they created to serve them - an absurdity.
Even if we were to imagine that human beings are mere robots made of metal, they would be more valued than in this scheme.
In this context, what is the reason that China is on the course of massively expanding the production robots that are humanoid?
And ironically, some of the said critics of the West look up to China as providing an alternative that is healthy.
...
Would you please provide a link to Dr. Cao Fengze on Zhihu?
You said you secured an opportunity to meet Dr Fengze.
Is it for an interview?
If so, is the interview yet to happen?
I wonder if Dr. Cao Fengze and/or his wife have read Albert Schweitzer. And how are they acquainted with his work and the experiences of his team in Africa?
Thanks for asking these questions! Personally, I think such criticism has its base in post-modern societies like the US or part of China. Yet, such criticism also contains a privilege. I think Chinese would say a person on a higher level of Maslow's hierarchy shouldn't judge others' choices. For people who haven't experienced abundance, it's natural that they would value material things over human beings. That's why many of those criticisms go too far away to people actually experiencing shortages. I met Dr.Cao at an event; I didn't interview him; it was just random talk about his experiences. I think he had yet to read Schweitzer; he studied Civil Engineering, not Philosophy. his page: https://www.zhihu.com/people/cao-feng-ze-37/answers
.... such criticism also contains a privilege. I think Chinese would say a person on a higher level of Maslow's hierarchy shouldn't judge others' choices. For people who haven't experienced abundance, it's natural that they would value material things over human beings. That's why many of those criticisms go too far away to people actually experiencing shortages. ...
There appears to be some confusion, and maybe it is only in my head. The criticism in my comment was about developed societies. And it is a criticism that says: marginalising people is inexcusable. Increased automation cannot be a good reason for marginalising people. It's a criticism from the view that human interests should remain in the center.
It is also something else than indifference toward productivity, or an argument against increases in productivity.
My bad, it was too late in Beijing. I don't worry about increasing automation marginalizing people for now. I think it's a good starting point; after people find that producing materials is no longer a good option, more of them will be focusing on amusing themselves and others. And they are not marginalized as long as they find meaning in the new job created. Automation takes people away from hand-made products, but what about their ability to organize society? or producing cultural artifact.
If the purpose of technology is to help people, automation should automate those activities that people want to avoid doing, and allow people spend more time and become better in those activities they like doing. In a society that cares of the interests of the people, there is a need to envision how this is to be done.
My question about Dr. Cao's acquaintance with Schweitzer is because of the problems Cao faces with the Tanzanian mentality. He would be helped by learning about the experiences of previous generations of people like him - foreign professionals who want to contribute to a better world - in Tanzania. They all faced the same basic problems as Dr. Cao. One of them was Luise Aall, a doctor, who later moved from Tanzania to become a member of Schweitzer's hospital in Gabon, and still later wrote about her experiences in the books Call Mama Doctor and Working With Doctor Schweitzer. Schweitzer spent fifty years among Africans, so his books on his own experiences with them may also contain something useful for Dr. Cao. Schweitzer's hospital is still highly functioning in a corner of an African jungle, so they may be doing something right in their dealing with the African mentalities.
These books are freely available, if not in China, then in 'brotherly' Russia
https://ru.annas-archive.org/md5/2c6127ff4b0487df5fbda89569f3df05
https://ru.annas-archive.org/md5/8e8408dc145b788429e3be5f060cb7c3
https://archive.org/details/dayswithalbertsc00fran/page/n5/mode/2up
You may consider forwarding this message to Dr. Cao
With my best wishes
Thank you Dors! You are so nice! Will let him know that!